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TOPIC: OIL - and all oil related topics.

OIL - and all oil related topics. 10 years 1 month ago #78

  • Staalburger
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All oils absorb the bad stuff produced during the combustion process; that's what they are designed to do. Whether its synthentic, part synthentic or mineral oil they all turn black after running a while.
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OIL - and all oil related topics. 10 years 1 month ago #89

  • ogri
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Hi

So let me then try to give more info. I did say that synthetic oils does not absorb all the acids. That is true.

What makes the oil black is wear and tear. Small metal particles and other particles. Have a look under a microscope and you will see !

What are the advantages of synthetic oil?
Synthetic oil was developed for high-temperature use in jet aircraft engines decades ago when engineers realized that petroleum-based oils break down and lose their lubricating capabilities when exposed to high heat. Over time, petroleum-based oils began to oxidize and create sludge, leaving damaging residue inside the engine.

Formulated in a laboratory, man-made synthetic oil doesn?t contain the naturally occurring chemicals that break down at high temperatures. It is also manufactured without many of the chemical compositions that contribute to oil oxidation and sludge buildup. Synthetic oil can tolerate temperatures that would burn up petroleum-based oils.

Synthetic oil performs admirably in heat, but also offers many benefits in extreme cold. Petroleum-based motor oil thickens in cold temperatures, requiring the starter and battery to work much harder to start a cold engine. Synthetic oil is not as affected by low temperatures, and it will flow much easier at engine start-up. As an added benefit, the cold temperature properties allow it to be quickly pumped throughout the engine, offering much improved start-up protection against friction.

Custom-designed synthetic oils contain many additives. These keep the inside of the engine clean, and add additional engine protection for extended periods.

What are the disadvantages of synthetic oil?
Quite simply, the biggest disadvantage of synthetic oil is price. With a manufacturing process that is much more involved, synthetic motor oil costs nearly four times the price of petroleum-based motor oil. This means an oil change that would typically cost R90-R100 could cost nearly R200. However, since synthetics are more durable, oil changes are not needed as often, and this fact partially negates the cost disadvantage of synthetics. (I do my oil changes more frequent than what the manual says. That gives longer engine life and the trade off is worth the little extra money. A broken engine is not cheap to fix on any make of bike !)

What is a synthetic blend?
Regular petroleum-based motor oil and synthetic motor oil are fully compatible, and can be readily mixed. Some manufacturers combine the two types of oil and package the mixture as a synthetic blend. Synthetic-blend oils offer many of the benefits of fully synthetic oil, but at a reduced cost. Be sure to consult your owner?s manual or the vehicle manufacturer before considering a switch to synthetic blend oil.

Does my vehicle need synthetic oil?
There is little doubt that synthetic oil offers superior engine protection under extreme operating conditions. However, many owners may not operate their vehicles in conditions that warrant the additional engine protection of synthetic motor oil. For most owners, petroleum-based motor oils are just fine. Change the oil at the manufacturer?s recommended interval (found in the owner?s manual) and your vehicle will reward you with a long service life.

If your vehicle is turbocharged, used for towing heavy loads, driven on the racetrack, or operated in extreme temperatures, synthetic oil may be beneficial for extended engine life. Each of these harsh operating conditions demand more from your engine and motor oil, and synthetic oil can deliver the needed protection.

One other reason to consider synthetic motor oil is extended periods between oil changes. Petroleum-based oils generally require replacement every 3,500 to 7,500 km, depending on service use. Synthetic oils can easily offer double the service life as their chemical composition does not break down over time. Several manufacturers have taken advantage of this and supply synthetic oil in their vehicles from the factory to extend oil-change intervals and extend engine longevity. Check your owner?s manual or ask your service advisor if synthetic motor oil may be right for your vehicle or driving style.

Hope this clears things up a littel more

Ogri the Biker :evil:
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OIL - and all oil related topics. 10 years 1 month ago #91

  • RobC
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Forgive me for sounding pedantic but synthetic oil is petroleum based, it is just modified and enhanced through catalytic processes to be more effective than unenhanced oils. Synthetic petrol aka Sasol is also an example of catalytic manupulation of the raw hydrocarbons.
Beware some synthetics as they may cause clutch problems because they are too "slippery", use one that is made for wet clutches.
A good oil for the KLR is Shell Helix, you do not need a super expensive oil imho. The KLR is an old school unstressed motor, not a high performance high revving one. It will happily chug along on plain 10w40 or 20w50 if nothing else is at hand. That is why the bike is so popular, it can go anywhere in the world and digest the local fuel and lubricants without serious problems.
Got my motor runnin... heading for the highway...
08 KLR650 Green/Shock Protector Flap-Penta-Tooltube-Crash Bars-LED instrument lights-Hazard and Indicator Mod-Stiebel Horn-PCV Mod-SS footpegs-HID Headlights-progressive fork springs-upgraded shock and spring.
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OIL - and all oil related topics. 10 years 1 month ago #95

  • ogri
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Hallo RobC

I am not trying to get into a debate with you about synthetic oils v mineral oils. You obviously have a different idea about oils than most of the worlds top manufacturers.

If you do proper research about the subject tou will see that there are proven results that synthetic oils are much better that standard engine-oils.

It allows engines to run cooler and lasts much longer and does not break down under heat. Whatever you think is your prerogative.

I never said a KLR cannot run on standard oils such as SAE30 or 20W50 multigrade oils. If better oil is available to you why settle for the old stuf ? Just because its cheaper ? Now that would be a total idiot's argument. Engine protection through synthetic oils will eventually save you lots of money.

Sure, if you are one out of 100,000 bikers that do tackle darkest of Africa on a KLR, you can put in normal oil and the bike will run. We all have access to good oils in the RSA so why settle for the old crap ?

By the way, unless you play around with stuff like Prolong and all that funny stuff, NO synthetic oil will let your bike's clutch slip. That is a total bullshit story bro !

I use only the best oils in my bikes. Castrol racing 10W60 or Harley Harley Davison 10W40 or Agip Sint. Never had clutches slip, not even on my 44 year old Honda CB77.

Have a look at which manufacturers endorse whuch syntetic oils and you will see for yourself. Go read BMW supercar (and many other supercars)manuals and it will state that if you use anything but synthetic it will void your guarantee. No why is that ? Because the oil is far superior over old mineral crap oil.

Please put mineral oil in your bike. Please do me that favour, whatever makes you happy. Just remind me not to buy your bike when it has done high milage, as I will not.

Keep on biking !

OGRI the BIKER :evil:
Last Edit: 10 years 1 month ago by ogri.
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OIL - and all oil related topics. 10 years 1 month ago #97

  • RobC
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LOL
Now we have 3 things not to discuss online;
Religion
Politics
Brands
Oil types
I still maintain that Shell Helix is not crud. :-)
Chances of me getting Shell Helix in Maun is better than getting Motul... and that is what I meant by my posting.
We ride a bike that can go anywhere and is not fussy.
For sure use the best when you can but be thankful that your steed of choice can "downgrade" if needs be.
By the way I had a Z750 and Z1000, both had slippy clutches when I changed from normal GTX to the fancier synth oil made by Castrol... went back to GTX after finding out what was the cause. In thoise days bike specific oils were scarcer than hens teeth! Synth oils made for bikes these days do not have the slippy clutch syndrome but I would not put a non bike synth in my wet clutch bike. Way too expensive lesson methinks. :-)
Got my motor runnin... heading for the highway...
08 KLR650 Green/Shock Protector Flap-Penta-Tooltube-Crash Bars-LED instrument lights-Hazard and Indicator Mod-Stiebel Horn-PCV Mod-SS footpegs-HID Headlights-progressive fork springs-upgraded shock and spring.
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OIL - and all oil related topics. 10 years 1 month ago #98

  • ogri
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Types of OIL should be discussed. Maybe religion and politics not.

I also did not say Shell Helix is crude oil. Its a very good oil. So is Castrol Magnatec that is a mineral-synthetic blend.

I do think that comments can confuse inexperienced users and I can just hope they will read my full comments on oils as posted.

I also had a Zed, and about 34 other bikes in total and never had slippy clutch problems from synthetic oils.

I used Total sint 9000 (now called something else) for more than 9 years in all my bikes and tin cans. NO problems ever.

In fact, the Sint 9000 stayed way cleaner in my 1975 Kawasaki KH250 two stroke triple than normal oil would ! NO CLUTCH SLIP either. Fact !

As I said, ride with whatever you like in your thumpah, I will recommend and use synthetics. Its just 100% better.

Now I am tired and gatvol debating with you and will not reply to any e-mails from you again. Please read my postings more carefully... You warp the points I make.

Ogri The biker (now gatvol trying to make some riders understand and see the light !) :evil: :evil:
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OIL - and all oil related topics. 10 years 1 month ago #100

  • Mario123
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Seems oil is a hot topic and I do value the knowledge and experience that is shared in this forum (and in this thread) as I am no oil expert. What I do know is that my bike is using it.

After all the info, I am still not sure wich one is the best. I am gonna try out this Motul 5100 10W50 and see what happens.
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OIL - and all oil related topics. 10 years 1 month ago #115

  • ogri
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Yeah, some people still believe old mineral oil is better than the stuff they use in high performance engines such as F1 cars, Superbikes and other high tech cars.

If the sint oil has the right viscosity (say 20/10W50/60) you can use it in your engine unless your manual advises otherwise !

Motul is good but overpriced. I like oils that are easily available: Castrol makes a whole range of synthetic oils, so does Total, BP, Shell, Engen, Mobil, Elf and so on.

Locally its easy to just pull into a filling station and buy sint from them if you are on tour, they are all compatible with each other and all comply with European standards (Thanks goodness they do not have to comply only with African standards) Then we would have had to put pig fat in the bikes !

If Motul is affordable to you . . . . Go for it.... o and do not be confused... Read the postings on Synthetic.. its so clear, brother or..... study the reports by independant researchers on the internet.. there are many !


Regards


Ogri
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OIL - and all oil related topics. 10 years 1 month ago #117

  • Mario123
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Ogri,

Thanks for the advise. I am 100% sold on synthetic oils. But my main concern is that I do not know by just looking at the bottle or packaging, whether it is full synthetic or a blend, but more importantly, whether it will screw up the clutch. Motul is not the most affordable oil, I agree. But seeing that I am commuting on the bike daily (140km a day) I can't afford to put a cheap oil in the bike with consequences later which is more costly.

I am also not "brand" orientated. All of the major producers as mentioned above makes good oil. But, if I start with a certain brand I'd like to continue with one and not mix oils between brands.

Incidently, I found Shell Rotella 10W50 (could also be 20W/50, can't remember)- but it said on the label that it is for Diesel motors, so I hesitated to buy it.

Taking into account the distance I travel on a daily basis at average 5000rpm range on the highway, what viscosity would be the best - 10W40 or 20W/50, or am I missing the point?
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OIL - and all oil related topics. 10 years 1 month ago #119

  • ogri
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Normally - I think always, it must state on the bottle/can/box that it is full synthetic.

The viscosity has to do with temperatures 10w can operate in extreme cold (suited for Canada / Alaska) and 50 or 60w means it can operate in very warm climates so if you live in a warm place like Skukuza where summers can get up to 40 then go for something like 20W50 rather than 10W40.

Castrol makes a nice 10W60 racing oil called Castrol Edge - full synthetic which I mix with 20W50. I use three fifths 10w60 and then something else, such as Total 20W50 synthetic or even Castrol Magnatec 20W50 (mineral based but totally mixable/blendable with any synthetic).

So I get a good 10/20W50/60 mix. The bikes runs very well with that here in the lowveld where we do a lot of trials and slow stuff in 1st gear and the bike is much cooler than before. Just the ambient heat from the engine is lower. (I use an infra red sensor to measure engine temperature sometimes.)

For commuting any 20W50 will be perfect. I have never had clutch problems with sint oils and I use any make I can get my hands on but usually make sure the oil is approved for use in Mercedes, VW and BMW engines. (It will say so on the bottle.) Their requirments are very clear and they will not allow certain oils in their cars. So to use an oil they approve of is a 100% safe bet.

I once had a Triumph Tiger 955i and the Edenvale (gauteng)based dealer said to use mineral oil in the bike. It did not sound right to me and when I mailed Triumph in England about that, they flipped and freaked out, stating that the bike's manual recommends sint. (which I also read and thats why I mailed them)

Triumph then contacted the dealer and he was NOT happy as he was kakked out by Triumph UK. Did I mention that the dealer does not like me much for "going to Triumph and not following the correct protocal" ?

Stuff him anyway as I did the right thing. Do not trust every oke that thinks him is a mechanic. Sometimes they believe in "old" or "proven" stuff.... I always ask proven what... old what ?

Look at the tech benefits of these RACE proven CURRENT sint oils (Tech sheet for Castrol Edge :-

Technical Data Sheet CASTROL EDGE SPORT 10W-60
DESCRIPTION / APPLICATION:
Castrol Edge Sport 10W-60 is a hard wearing product for use in a wide range of sports performance engines. This product has been tested in race engines to deliver protection in hot and hard running scenarios.
Castrol Edge Sport 10W-60 is suitable for tuned or high performance vehicles.
BENEFITS / FEATURES:
? Delivers race proven power and performance for highly tuned, competition engines.
? Provides strength in reserve.
? Protects even when fast, hot or hard running.
? Synthetic technology.
SPECIFICATIONS AND APPROVALS:
? 10W-60
? API SL / CF
? ACEA A3 / B3 / B4

TYPICAL CHARACTERISTICS:
Castrol Edge Sport 10W-60
Product Code
11222
Density at 20?C
0.8582
Viscosity at 40?C (mm?/s)
160.0
Viscosity at 100?C (mm?/s)
23.14
Viscosity Index
174
Total Base Number (mgKOH/g)
12.45
Pour Point (?C)
-30
Flash Point (PMCC) ?C
204
CCS -25 ?C (cP)
6100
Appearance
Bright and Clear

Hope this helps !
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